Josh Shernoff Discusses His FITE Exit, The Premier Streaming Network, Why Disney And WBD Lose Money Streaming, More! - Exclusive
There is possibly no bigger business story in pro wrestling than the future of streaming. With broadcast television slowly becoming a relic of the past as the years go on, fans are flooding streaming services like Peacock, Paramount+, HBO Max, Hulu, Netflix and others to get their content fix, and wrestling is no exception/
Pro wrestling has found its way to a few streaming services over the past few years. Of course, WWE went all in on itself and launched the WWE Network in 2014, offering their fans all of their live pay-per-views (now premium live events) and extensive video library for the low cost of just $9.99 per month. Before Tony Khan purchased the promotion, Ring of Honor offered fans their Honor Club, and New Japan Pro-Wrestling began utilizing it's New Japan World streaming service, both of which were similar to the WWE Network with a few differences. Companies like Impact Wrestling, CHIKARA, World Wonder Ring STARDOM, and SHIMMER Women Athletes also hopped on the trend, and other services began to spring up that provided access to several independent shows, such as IWTV and FITE, which recently began distributing streams for the popular independent promotion Game Changer Wrestling.
In this exclusive interview, Wrestling Inc. Senior News Editor Nick Hausman speaks with Josh Shernoff, Vice President of Programming and Creative Development for the new Premier Streaming Network, about Shernoff's recent decision to step away from FITE to help launch Premier, and what fans can expect when it begins to offer service.
FITE Departure
Nick Hausman: Josh, you're going all in on yourself. You're betting on yourself here. I have a lot of respect for that. You and your friend Paul Owen here, formally of FITE. I want to kind of walk everybody through what happened here that may not know the full story. So you and Paul were both with FITE for a while. How long were you with FITE?
Josh Shernoff: I was with Fight for just about four years. I was officially full-time with them since January of this year as Director of Programming, but I've been working with them as on-air and a producer and editor for about four years.
So how does your exit come about for FITE? What went down here, for those that don't know?
It's nothing really salacious, it was just time. For me, I've always been very goal-oriented, and I am constantly keeping my eyes open to different opportunities. And I saw an opportunity in the marketplace and I took it. I enjoyed my time at FITE. It was great to be able to work with Mike Weber and learn from him, but it reached a point where I had different goals of what I wanted to accomplish in my career. And when I saw the opportunity there to be a part of Premier Streaming Network, I took it.
Talk a little bit about your partner here, Paul Owen. Was this something that was kind of more his brainchild that he pulled you into?
No.
Okay. So how does this, the two of you were at a bar slinging tequila shots, and you're like, "Hey, I got an idea. Let me grab a napkin here"?
No, it really wasn't ... it's funny, it wasn't either of us. I know it because we both came from the same place. It kind of looks like one of us had the idea and grabbed the other one in. And that's not what happened. It was really, both of us were going to leave independent of each other, just to pursue other options and just further our careers in different ways. And this opportunity was just there. And one thing led to another and we both ended up working for the same company now and leading this team. And I'm excited to be able to be working with somebody that I do have experience working with. But yeah, no, he didn't poach me. I didn't poach him. It's just happened to work out this way.
What Makes The Premiere Streaming Network Different?
So do you have backers then, or is it just the two of you?
No, so it's not just the two of us, actually. My brother is a part of this company as well. He doesn't really like to be in any of the press releases or anything because he feels that he doesn't add to them, but I disagree. But he's actually the vice president of our business operations and finance. So that's kind of the core three people working in this business right now. My brother has a ton of experience with starting businesses, running businesses, so he obviously was an obvious choice to have that role. But as far as financing, we're self-funded right now, and that's going to take us pretty far. Obviously we've been talking with a number of other companies and people as far as funding, but right now we're in pretty good situation where we are.
All right, so give me the pitch. What makes you different? What makes the Premier Streaming network different?
Well, one of the things is, we're making the highest level of technology available to everyone, to promoters and leagues and companies all over the world, that maybe wouldn't be able to otherwise be a part of a platform with this level of technology. The way that we're viewing things is, our leadership team's kind of thinking everything digital first. And in a world that is overrun with streaming services in a lot of ways, there really aren't any that are digital first as far as the people who are the leadership team. They all came from somewhere else, when they were doing either pay-per-view or television or whatnot. And where we have a team of people that all really came up in the digital age.
So there's that mindset, but also the thing that really separates us from everything else that's out there is the way that we are operating with the promoters, with the content providers. We are not taking the approach of, "Just upload it like it's YouTube and just have it there and hope people watch it." We are working — and in this regard, we are more similar to a television network — we're working with the promoters, working with the content providers, and in a true partnership as opposed to just, "Come on here, we'll have you as something, and a day before your show, we'll just put out a tweet." We are really working hard to develop marketing plans with these promoters and really work hand-in-hand with them ...
Nick, there are so many really great quality companies out there ... I think that what people are going to find is, we are able to provide those slightly smaller, medium-sized promotions with this opportunity to use, as I said before, this high-end streaming platform that they otherwise would not be able to afford or have access to. And then it's our role to build them up, because some of the content out there, some of the best matches of the year are happening in front of 300 people. And my thought is, and our thought is, why do we need to make a show that's in front of 300 people feel less than just because they don't have the budget as one of these major companies? Why can't they be promoted? They're quality entertainment. Why can't they be promoted in the same way that a larger event would?
Digital First
So I want to kind get into the minutia here. You said a lot of things there, and let's start with digital first. That was kind of the first two minutes. What does that mean? When you say we are digital first, what is that? What does that mean?
It means that we understand the streaming world. And I know that seems kind of like, well, everybody understands the streaming world. We get it, you turn it on your tablet or your phone or your computer or whatever. But it's really understanding the nuances and the differences between the model that's used from a strictly pay-per-view to having things like an AVOD or an SVOD. So having your subscription base, having your advertising in there. So there is just a mindset that is different. And a lot of what you'll find, and I'm not naming anyone specifically, but just in general, what you'll find is people get how it actually physically works with streaming, but they don't understand that there's ... like I said, the behind the scenes of it, when you're marketing something, when you're a digital first company, you're going to market differently than you would if you were a traditional pay-per-view company or traditional television company. You're going to market things differently. So honestly, it's more of a mindset. It's harder to explain specifically what it means, which I know is kind of annoying. But it's the mindset of it.
How PSN Will Engage With Companies And Users
So when you talk about dealing with these companies directly and offering them these resources, is this something where you would be renting out your equipment to these people at a discount, or you would be loaning the equipment to elevate them and then you're taking a larger percentage of the pay-per-viewer subscription pack? How exactly does that balancing act work between the customer and what you're providing here, I guess?
No, that's a great question. So one of the things that we pride ourselves on is that there is not a "one size fits all" for everybody. So there absolutely will be some events where we will provide a crew that will come out there and we'll film things. There will also be some events where they already have that and they don't need that from us, and we can take a feed directly. There will also be some events where they have the crew, but they're going to send to our team and our team's going to edit, and our team's going to piece it together and make sure that it's ready to air.
So there's a lot of different ways that we can do it. But yeah, there are a lot where we will be sending crews or just having crews that we work with that maybe we're not the ones even sending them, but we have a relationship with them so that we know exactly what they're bringing us, and they know exactly what our expectations are. We also have an in-house art department. So for instance, when you have a company that has their poster. They maybe don't have the manpower or the means or the know-how to create all of the different — the thumbnails, the posters, the cover photos, what we need for a hero section on our page. So we have an in-house team that also creates a uniform look between all of these companies while also obviously showcasing the uniqueness of them.
Okay, I got you. So you brought up subscription pay-per-view. Which model are you guys leaning and what kind of price point do you think people can expect?
So price point hasn't been set yet. I have an idea, but I'm not allowed to say, but ... well, I'll say it now and then it'll change. But we are doing all of it. We're doing pay-per-view, we're doing subscription, we're doing also AVOD, which is just free to the public with advertising in there. Because again, like I said, it's not "one size fits all," so we have to look at the program, we have to look at exactly what it is.
Let's say you have a soccer match. You're not going to put that on pay-per-view ... How many people do you think would be watching "Sunday Night Football" if it was on pay-per-view? Probably less than are watching it now. So that would be more of an AVOD situation.
The Content Coming To PSN
A wrestling event, that's going to happen. We all know we're conditioned to know that big blow-off event, that's your pay-per-view, your weekly show. I know TNA tried it many years ago. Your weekly show traditionally is not going to be pay-per-view. However, some things will be exclusive to behind the paywall, behind the subscription. Then there are others where you look at it and you say, "Okay, well we have a pay-per-view that's lasted 30 days, maybe 60 days in some cases, even 90 days where people are still buying it." But eventually that's going to drop off and people aren't going to buy it anymore.
And so at that point, that's when you move it to subscription, because now people are still paying ... yeah, it's a tiny amount, but they're still paying a little something. They're still able to monetize this even though it's been maybe six months, maybe a year. And in some cases when you talk about libraries of promotions, it's been decades, but there's still a way to monetize those ... So there again, no, it's not a "one size fits all." As unorganized as that response was, it's actually very well organized on the platform.
There were parts of that really did resonate with me when you were trying to not say things. So the other question I'm getting a lot is, obviously you brought it up earlier, what's the content? Who have you made deals with? What can people expect in that regard?
So I can't obviously say who we've made deals with yet ... In the next week or so ... we're going to start rolling out who they are ... I think as of last night, actually, I think now we have about 10 different promotions. Not all of them are wrestling, but a decent amount are wrestling that are signed on, some of which are relatively newer. So yeah, there's a little bit of a library, but not too much. And some of them have libraries that are spanning, god, 30-plus years. So we've very, very happy.
I'll be honest, we're ahead of where we expected to be at this point in time. Considering the fact that we're currently, if you look at it, when we're pitching things and showing things, we don't have a proof of concept. We do have a demo site that we're able to show potential clients, but a lot of it, I do believe, is based off of the reputation that I have and that Paul has, and the reputation — more so than just what we know about the business, but I like to believe that it's reputation of honesty, that they know they're not going to get screwed working with us ... We want to work with them, we want to grow with these other promotions.
And actually, from my experience, from years of promoting shows or just working behind the scenes, I have seen how difficult that is to be on that end. And then my experience on the other side working for networks, I've seen on that side what the complications are. And I believe that we have a really good game plan of how to make everybody work together and everybody succeed, including the fans that are watching.
Disney And Warner Bros. Discovery's Streaming Struggles
I want to close by asking you about Disney, Warner Brothers Discovery. Now, these companies right now are losing millions of dollars on streaming. How does that affect the way you think? And do you think they're doing something wrong? Do you see something you could be doing more right? What do you just think about the narrative, I guess, at the moment, that there's not really money to be made in streaming services based on what we're seeing on a large scale at the moment?
Look, as much as I would love to put us in the same conversation as Disney and anything like that, the reality is, I think, in my opinion, that a lot of why they're losing money is because it's kind of a race. Look, it's always a race to get profitable. But I think what happens is, when you're something like let's say a Disney Plus, the amount of money that they're going to put out for an original piece of content is very different than the amount of money, say, that we or somebody at our size is going to put out for original content ... We're not dealing with the CGI of a "She-Hulk." We don't have those expenses.
So I think ... in my opinion, and I could be wrong here, but just when I look at it, when I read the articles, it looks to me like it's a company that is actually doing well, but they're just spending more than they're taking in. I mean, it's very simple in that regard. And I think they have to in some ways, because would any of us been as excited for Disney Plus if they weren't churning out all of these Marvel ... in essence, they're like, each episode is like a movie. These are high-budget productions. So I think that is really the answer as to why they haven't been able to be profitable yet, is because of the fact that they're spending so much money.
So from us, from our end, we don't have to spend that amount. Trust me, we're spending money, but we don't have to spend that amount. When we are putting on a live wrestling event, that is not going to cost us the same amount in that regard, and we are able to scale that to a way that we can actually make a profit and factor in all of our expenses.
But yeah, I think also what you're going to find over time is all of these different streaming services, I do think there's going to be a consolidation. There already has been consolidations and there and talk of more consolidations. So I think that they're, you're going to see more and more of that, and that's going to kind of be a way that eventually they're going to be able to have so much money coming in that it ends up being more than what's going out.
How To Become A Part Of The PSN Movement
Well Josh, I want to thank you so much for just shining some light on what you're doing here ... Thank you for giving us the best answers you can.
No, I thank you. And I'm sorry that I can't give ... I mean, you know how it is. I'm certainly not the first interview you've ever done, so you know how it is. I wish I could tell you every single thing that we have planned. All I can say is just, be excited by it, because it is going to be really cool. And it is, if you're a wrestling fan, you're going to love it. If you're a boxing, MMA fan, you're going to love it. But also, we are working on stuff. We are working on brand new original content, scripted, unscripted. We have a lot of plans for this platform. It is going to be very different than what you've seen in this space in the past.
Fair enough. So you got launch week coming up. Tell people about that. And if a company is reading this and is interested in working with you, let people know how they can contact you all to maybe get involved with what you're doing right now, Josh.
Yeah, so launch week ... we have a date in mind that I won't say yet, because while it looks like we are definitely on track for it, I don't want to make a false promise, but early 2023. I would suggest very early 2023. And as far as people being able to get in contact, most people can find me @SoSaysShernoff on all social media. But you can also send to our info@premierstreamingnetwork.com. That would be a great way to get in touch with us.