Ken Shamrock Talks WWE Relationship, Fight Fixing Allegations, TNA, Brawl For All, Bellator 149

I had the opportunity to speak to UFC Hall of Famer Ken Shamrock ahead of his big fight against Royce Gracie this Friday at Bellator 149, which airs live on Spike TV. Shamrock opened up to me about leaving the WWF, TNA, being approached about the Brawl For All, and his desire to come back to wrestling.

You can check out the full interview below.

* * *

You have this big main event fight coming up on February 19 at Bellator 149. You've been waiting for a long time for this third bout with Royce Gracie, haven't you?

"Yeah, I've been wanting this fight for 20 years, and pretty much gave up the last ten years. Then pretty much out of nowhere I put on a bad fight against Kimbo and (Royce) comes out of the woodwork saying he wants to fight me. I must have looked pretty bad in that Kimbo fight for him to want to fight me (laughs).

Was it surprising to you that he was willing to fight you, even after the Kimbo fight?

"Yeah, it was a shock. I thought that fight was not going to happen. I tried to put it together many times and it never happened, so I figured it was just one of those things we'll never know. I was pleasantly surprised that he stepped up that quickly."

There were many that speculated that once Royce Gracie got a taste of wrestling he darted from the UFC. Do you think that Dan Severn, and the improvement you made in the second fight had something to do with that?

"I think they saw the writing on the wall that the athletes that were competing in the UFC were learning to defend the gi, learning to defend the takedown, learning how to stay on their feet longer and land punches. Royce has made no bones about it, he doesn't like getting hit. I think that had a lot to do with it. The Gracies said 'enough of this stuff, we have to learn how to fight our way.' They've really done that. They've learned to strike and be well on the ground at the same time."

Unfortunately they also ran into a guy by the name of Kazushi Sakuraba. After your fight with Kimbo, a lot of people popped up saying that they thought it was a fixed fight. What do you say to those people?

"I think it's pretty clear that you look at my forehead that I had a gash in my forehead that went down to the bone, so that's a heck of a work (laughs). I can understand why people would say that. Everybody has their own opinion, but I thought that fight was stopped too soon. I took one shot, a solid shot. I was dazed, I wasn't hurt, wasn't on my back quivering. I was still ready to fight. In MMA, I believe that when a fighter knocks someone down, you have to finish him. It's not boxing where you have a ten count, you have to finish him. I didn't see that happen. I understand how some people look at it and say that it didn't look right. I had control over him, had the choke in. When I train for a fight, you roll around, you catch someone in a move, you let them go. You just let go and keep going. We talk about ring rust, and things that happen when you're not in a ring for a long time, and that's what happened. The fight played out exactly how I wanted it to. I took Kimbo down, I knew he'd roll over, I knew I'd put the hooks in, I knew I'd choke him and I knew he'd tap out. All of those things happened. The only problem was is that I became the referee. I eased up when he tapped my elbow real quick, and that's not my job. That comes with some ring rust. He tapped quickly, and I let up. I allowed him to get his chin down and keep going. That was a mistake that I made. That was it, I let him out. Once he got his chin down, I never really got back into the fight. I always believed in my mind that he tapped and Big John was going to stop it. I take full responsibility for it and I paid for it. Now I'm back to erase that mistake and move on."

What was your reaction when Bellator approached you with the Kimbo fight, and then the Royce Gracie fight, even after the loss?

"I was very happy about that. In the back of my mind I was thinking that was pretty poor. The fans were disappointed and I was disappointed and I wasn't sure I was going to get another opportunity. It was all on me, though. I was the one who made the mistake. I was disappointed but really excited that I got this fight. Not only that, a main event fight that is so popular that it could be more record breaking numbers. I'm happy and I want to let my fans know I'm happy for the support they're giving me after that loss. That's not going to happen again, I promise you that. This fight is going to be different. I've knocked off the ring rust. I'm going in there to finish the fight in the first round. If that doesn't happen, I'll finish it in the second or third. I will go out on my sword or go out sticking the sword."

How much longer do you think you have in the sport?

"It really depends on my health, as long as I'm able to put the training in. I struggle with my training sometimes. The thing I look at is if you keep getting up and moving forward, you'll be successful. That's the way I've lived my life. I'm not going to stop doing something because somebody says it's time. I'm going to stop it when my body says it's over or the fans say 'we're done watching you.' If I'm healthy, and the fans still want to see me fight, you'll see me walking out there. "

You also have a rich history in pro wrestling. What led to that abrupt departure in 1999? I remember you being in a program with Chris Jericho and then just leaving.

"There was a lot of stuff happening there. For me, I'd kind of hit this wall where I was on the roads so much that I was missing my kids' football games and wrestling matches and the dances they were going to. I had five kids, so it really hurt me to miss that many things. I felt that was a good time for me to figure out how to stop being on the road and be with my family. We had a lot of things coming up in my family that was tearing it apart. That's the reason those things happened. It just seemed like I spent so much time on the road, I missed my kids growing up, and I couldn't handle that.

Were you ever approached to do the Brawl For All?

"When I got approached about it, I was disappointed. It took me a long time to be able to build trust with the different people I got in the ring with and would wrestle with. When I was asked to do that I was like 'uh, okay, $50,000?' It didn't seem right to me that I would go into this tournament style fighting thing, I was a professional, and beat these amateur guys up. That's why I didn't do it. Why are you asking me to do this? I just came into pro wrestling and I'm learning this craft, and now you want me to go in there and do a complete 360 and beat these guys up for $50,000 when I'm used to making half a million to a million. None of it made any sense to me."

What did you think of their rule-set?

"It was like training, that's the kind of training that we do. You put your gloves on and you kick and you punch, and a guy takes you down and you get up again and go at it again. It was really weird, but I see why they did it, it made it a little more exciting. You don't have someone coming in there and laying on someone for five minutes. That's what would have happened, guys would get tired and lay on each other, so it forced them to stand up and throw punches. It was kind of like a Toughman Contest. It was very uncomfortable for me when they asked me to do it."

Were you surprised how the tournament played out, with Bart Gunn displaying that knockout power?

"Yeah. Anytime you see guys go in there and fight eachother and you don't know anything about them, you're going to have one of those guys and go 'Wow, he can hit hard.' Someone's always going to have that sneaky power, and it ended up being him. A lot of guys dropped out, too. You had Steve Blackman, he didn't want to do it anymore. It was kind of different, and to mix it in with pro wrestling at that time put a lot of stress on the guys. They're trying to focus on what's happening, then preparing for this fight that is real, then they have to go back out there and do their jobs. It was definitely a confusing time for a lot of those guys. I felt what they were feeling because they're not professional fighters, and they're going out there and mixing it with their jobs. It put a lot of pressure on them to perform and do both. I felt bad for both of them."

Have you had any talks with WWE over the past 15 years?

"Not too long ago I was contacted about some royalty stuff, they were going to make some action figures of me, so yeah, I've had contact with them mostly on that end but not really with the talent. I've always put out there that I'd love to have another run at that heavyweight title. I felt it was cut short, a lot of it on my part because I felt everything was slipping away with my family and I had to fix that, but I felt that I didn't get a good run at that title. I've won everything else but that heavyweight title, so it's always in the back of my mind. Like that Royce fight, you try to get it for ten years and think it won't happen. Here I am fighting him, so after I fight Royce, maybe I'll get offered a shot at the Heavyweight title sometime."

One company you did hold the world title for was TNA. What was that like for you?

"Any time you're carrying a strap for a company, it's a good feeling to know there's some trust and faith in you to keep them bringing in fans to watch their show. I was very pleasantly surprised that I was given that opportunity. It was a short time there, but I thought very exciting. I was shocked they didn't do more. I thought the concept they had was good, it just seemed like it didn't get finished."

Why did you end up leaving TNA?

"I don't really know. I remember after I had won the title they came to me and wanted me to drop it to Ron Killings, who was a very good worker. Good kid. It just seemed like they stopped using me. I had a fight coming up and I had to train and couldn't be there all the time. I'm almost positive that's what it was, they needed guys that could be there full-time. When I joined them I told them I was still fighting and didn't mind doing this, but I couldn't commit 100 percent because I have fights and I'm training at different times. Going into it, that was the deal. Once it started going down, they saw that it took up too much time and they needed me there more in order to work some of these angles out. It wasn't an angry departure. I was satisfied with them, they were satisfied with me, it just didn't work out."

What is your relationship with your brother Frank like today?

"Well, Frank's going to be working my corner for this fight. Guy Mezger is going to be there, he's the Dallas connection for the Lion's Den. He's been with me for a long time, a great trainer. Dave, a boxing friend of mine, my two kids Shawn and Ryan will be there. Frank's a great corner, motivational, skill wise. It's great to have Frank back in the mix. I'm glad we were able to put aside our differences and move forward in life."

You think Frank's ever going to get back into the cage?

"Well obviously there are offers out there. Franks great at marketing, people love him. The problem with him is he has to make sure any offer is something he wants to do, and that his body is healthy enough to do it. I know he had some different health issues he was dealing with. Nothing serious, but stuff he had to get figured out. He has his options out there, no doubt."

It's so interesting to see this Bellator 149 show. Bellator is really different. What can fans who haven't checked out Bellator 149 expect?

"I can tell you, just being involved in the movement that Scott Coker and Bellator are bringing to the fans, it's entertainment. People love to be entertained, and love the different storylines that go on in pro wrestling. If you're a fight fan, you love good fights, but there's a million fights out there. There's a lot of guys fighting out there. Why do you want to watch this fight in particular? It has a storyline. It has some entertainment value to it.

"Scott Coker is bringing this movement to MMA where not only do you have a fight going on in the ring, but you have a story going also. He brings those stories out to the public so people know why they're fighting. He has a lot of young fighters coming up, too, and a lot of fighters coming from the UFC to Bellator. You don't just have these fights that are entertainment, you have great fighters moving up the ranks at the same time. He has a great mix of the entertainment world we live in, and the technical strategies of a great fighter. I'm happy to be a part of it."

Bellator had a big signing in Ben Henderson recently. How did you feel about that?

"It goes to show you that Scott Coker and his design is starting to play out. You see the direction Bellator is going, the success they're having. When you see fighters recognize that, you know your direction is the right direction. You have people go from a company that's paying more than anyone's paying, even if it's not enough, and they're moving from that to Bellator. When you have that combination of people being willing to take less now to make more in the long run, that's a great rumor to have started among fighters themselves. You see that you'll make more money in the future. Bellator is going in the right direction. It'll be interesting to see what direction Bellator goes after the fight with myself and Royce Gracie. I think a lot of doors are going to open and you're going to see them make a move in the TV industry, not PPV, where they take market shares from the UFC."

Are you still actively taking pro wrestling bookings?

"After the fight I'm going ot England doing a tour up there and a pro wrestling event. So yes I am, but selective ones. I don't want to do it to do it, it has to make sense to me. Hopefully in the future when the smoke clears and I'm successful in my endeavors that there will be some opportunities for me out there in pro wrestling, because it's something I didn't get to finish. I'd love to go back and finish some bookings with pro wrestling."

Where can fans follow you on social media, and get one of those sweet Ken Shamrock shirts?

"Go to my website KenShamrock.com. That's where all my information is. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram on there, along with the shirts. You can see my businesses and opportunites on there as well. It's all on KenShamrock.com."

Anything else you want to tell the fans before we go?

"I appreciate the support we've had over the years. This comes from my heart, I would not be where I am today with the opportunities at my age if it were not for the fans. They're really supported me over the years, and it doesn't go unnoticed from me. I really appreciate that. This fight is for the fans. People are told 'you can't do something, you're too short, you're too old,' this fight is for them."

You can listen to the full interview above, or in the player below. You can also download audio of the interview directly at Your text to link...this link. If you want to subscribe to our audio channel, you can do so through iTunes as well as our RSS feed, which you can use this to subscribe through any podcast app. If you enjoy the interview, please rate us on iTunes!